John Hendry

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:27:09
Unknown
Flow. Unleashed, unleashed, unleashed. How much do you value the manner in which you talk to yourself? Do you know why? Peak performance expert suggests that your self relationship is the most critical aspect to sustainable peak performance.

00:00:27:11 - 00:00:54:13
Unknown
Welcome to Flow Unleashed. I'm Doctor Cameron Noseworthy, scientist and High-Performance coach to multiple world champions. In this show, we unpack key insights and specific topics so that you are kept up to date with the latest science and practice of human performance.

00:00:54:15 - 00:01:00:14
Unknown
First of all, before I go over.

00:01:00:16 - 00:01:27:20
Unknown
Your self relationship impacts how you see yourself, how you interact with others, and how we allow ourselves to perform. Anyone who struggles with self criticism knows how debilitating life can be. So what is our self relationship and how do we interact with it in an optimal manner? In its simplest term, a self relationship is exactly what it sounds like.

00:01:27:22 - 00:01:56:08
Unknown
A relationship you have with yourself. It is the culmination of how you lead yourself. Treat yourself. Talk to yourself and the decisions you make for yourself and the feelings you have about yourself. For example, when growing up, I was so hard on myself. I was a 14 year old boy living away from home, sweating, competing for three hours a day to become the next best tennis player.

00:01:56:10 - 00:02:25:10
Unknown
And whilst many may have described me as an example for many other kids in regard to myself relationship, this could not be further from the truth. Every time I made a mistake, I berated my failure with criticism and disgust and told myself, I'm such an idiot. Whilst the high standards I held weren't problematic, the way I related to myself to try and achieve these high standards was destructive.

00:02:25:12 - 00:02:59:12
Unknown
As a result of this suboptimal relationship with myself, I felt shame, anger, even fear to try again. My bottled frustration would distract my thinking and the continue self criticism only chipped away at my confidence. Being critical of yourself will affect your confidence, self-worth, self-esteem, and foster doubt in your thinking. At times. It can make you avoid the challenges in your life, can even result in isolating yourself from friends and family.

00:02:59:14 - 00:03:31:11
Unknown
An unhelpful self relationship will ultimately hold you back and over time, have lasting effects on your mental health. Whereas a positive self relationship can foster your self-efficacy, self-worth, and support you to embracing the challenges in your life. It can help you to be resilient, comfort and energetic and see opportunities in every situation. One person who has spent a lifetime helping others improve the relationship they have with themselves is John Hendry.

00:03:31:13 - 00:04:04:12
Unknown
John has been awarded the Order of Australian Medal for his role in education. John has implemented relationship reparation programs into numerous corporations and schools, most notably developing positive education in Geelong Grammar School in Australia. John is widely regarded as one of Australia's most valued educational keynotes. Flow unleashed. Welcome, John. Thanks, Cameron. So for what reason is your message so important?

00:04:04:14 - 00:04:32:20
Unknown
My message to all who are looking to try and get into flow is that you? You have to understand the role of forgiveness in actually getting there. There's absolutely no way. And it's been confirmed again this morning with my conversation with Cathy Freeman. There is absolutely no way that you can be actually performing at your best if you don't give yourself a break, because at any moment you will be tested and you will slip.

00:04:32:22 - 00:05:00:00
Unknown
You will find that your absolute focus that is needed to be in flow is inhibited in one way or another by a thought, or or someone else has thought that. So it's what I call gray noise as much as white noise. What's going on in your mind at the moment and what is being said to you outside? If you don't manage that?

00:05:00:00 - 00:05:33:00
Unknown
Give yourself a break. It will slowly irritate and dominate you and will destroy your past flows. And if you are in flow, you have to really be careful because you can lose that critical focus that is needed for you to be performing at your best. So forgiveness is really critical. And to even get to flow, you have to give yourself a break when you are preparing and putting all the conditions in place.

00:05:33:00 - 00:06:03:04
Unknown
Because we are emotional beings and we tend to drift too readily with a dislocation in our emotions. So how did you get into this field? I probably got into the field or became aware of it when I was about 16 or 17 years old. I stumbled very badly as a child, and emotionally that was really critical in the actually overcoming it.

00:06:03:04 - 00:06:31:12
Unknown
And I was six years old. I had to do speech therapy for the next seven years, and the speech therapist was very wise. The only two things she did was to teach me to meditate and to sing. The meditation was so that I would be aware of my physical state, because that's how our brain works. Our brain actually picks up after our body has registered an emotion.

00:06:31:14 - 00:07:05:11
Unknown
So an example is when we're angry, we get hot under the collar, our temperature changes, and when we're really afraid, we go cold. We have many sayings. So I was taught just to become aware of your body. Once I'm aware of it, then I've realized it. Then I can actually do something about it. So I was being inhibited in what I could achieve by emotionally not understanding what was going on.

00:07:05:13 - 00:07:33:20
Unknown
And it is a matter of regulation and co regulation of emotion. And talking to Cathy Freeman this morning, she had a similar circumstance. It wasn't as debilitating as my stammer. So I became very interested. And then I thought, hang on a minute, why can't everyone perform at their best? Because I was looking at people I was playing by this stage.

00:07:33:20 - 00:07:57:06
Unknown
Elite sport with. And being coached by coaches who were coaching in the fields that I was particularly interested in and loved playing, which was cricket. I was mean coached by people who were coaching Australia, were coaching Victoria, and I was looking at players I was playing with or or against, and I didn't think I was playing as well as I could because I'd seen them.

00:07:57:08 - 00:08:24:02
Unknown
And so I was trying to work out, how could you get to your best? And so I'd done a lot of research by this, and I'd got all the change, sent me high and understood what flow was, but how to get there. And this is where meditation was really important. I believe the meditation for me is allowing you to focus on one particular task, and that's what you need to do when you're in flow.

00:08:24:04 - 00:08:59:17
Unknown
All other things around that will still be there, but you have to quieten them so that they don't. You just see you as what you're doing. So as you're climbing, skiing, running, batting, playing tennis or whatever, if you're not fully focused, then your attention is drawn elsewhere and flow disappears. But practice does make perfect after a time. Then people can, by collecting, say, two, three, or four precursors to actually getting in the flow.

00:08:59:17 - 00:09:29:13
Unknown
If they can tick those off, then they're giving themselves a real chance to get into flow. So I, I became interested, Cameron, when I was just a boy, really. And I have pursued it both academically and both my great loves, which is teaching and coaching sport. I've been able to enable others to get in the flow, and I've been able to get teams into flow and classes into flow, which is really quite interesting.

00:09:29:19 - 00:09:51:19
Unknown
And at some stage I'd love to explain to all how you could actually do that, because flow is no different to any other activity, because contagion actually reaches into flow, which is just fabulous. But it's pretty easily destroyed as well.

00:09:51:21 - 00:10:15:11
Unknown
Listening to our self-talk can be a wonderful window to understanding how we really treat ourselves. Often we may think we respect ourselves and treat ourself well, but when experiencing failure, a self-talk can highlight how we truly treat ourselves. Do we tell ourselves to stop being such an idiot, or direct our thinking to identify the learning and focus on what's coming next?

00:10:15:13 - 00:10:48:19
Unknown
We can also identify if we have an unhealthy self relationship. If we display a repetitive fear of failure, perfectionism, avoidance to self care, and neglect of personal needs, negative self-talk, self-sabotaging behaviors, or find a self berating our own actions. It can also be obvious as we allow toxic or even abusive relationships to exist in our lives. We have the difficulty to say no.

00:10:48:21 - 00:11:24:07
Unknown
We have problems with overcommitting allow anxiety to affect our lives, have bad sleep. We continuously compare ourselves to others in an unfavorable way or in a superior way. Or if we need external affirmation to feel good about ourselves. How does the relationship we have with our self underpin the very limits of how we can perform? Why is the relationship we have with ourselves so important a quality relationship?

00:11:24:09 - 00:11:53:19
Unknown
And I've looked at relationship studies worldwide. About 90% of them are pretty superficial and not that significant. But there's the best research on what is a quality relationship comes from Professor Kim Cameron in, Michigan University. He talks about what is a virtuous institution, a relationship. Is that so? The first and critical thing is trust. So what is trust?

00:11:53:21 - 00:12:15:13
Unknown
And trust is when you give yourself totally to the task you're taking on, so too, if it's in a relationship, then to the person you're in relationship, if it's you know, a task you're doing, then you actually give yourself totally to that task. And so if it's management or if it's a sport or whatever it is, you become vulnerable.

00:12:15:14 - 00:12:52:04
Unknown
Trust is the thing that allows you to actually feel as if you can. The second one is forgiveness. And forgiveness is really critical. And the easiest way to explain forgiveness in a relational sense is to just look at the word forgiveness. It's made up of two words for and gives. If you take the four off the front and put it at the back, you give for the task, you give for the team, you give for yourself, you give for the class, whatever you give for that.

00:12:52:06 - 00:13:13:04
Unknown
We've all read a page of a of a novel and at the end of it wondered what it was and how attention was drawn away from it. So we have to go back and read it again. So at that stage, we can become destructive of ourselves and not be generous. So forgiveness is the thing that enables us to stay on task.

00:13:13:06 - 00:13:37:14
Unknown
The third is integrity. And integrity is that you give morally to do the right thing. Your intention is to be at your best, to give the right thing at that one time. And I base that on two philosophical underpinnings. The first one is the Hippocratic Oath. First, do no harm, and the second is the Golden rule applied at yourself.

00:13:37:14 - 00:14:07:12
Unknown
For God's sake, don't harm yourself. Don't give yourself a hard time. Give yourself a break, get back on task and don't wound yourself. It's just me. So these are critical things for anyone in business, in sport, anything they're doing in a relationship, it's unbelievably critical. So the intention to do the right thing, to be moral in your behavior is unbelievably important.

00:14:07:14 - 00:14:37:10
Unknown
The next one is hope. And I define resilience and what we want. A person who is in flow is secure. And that means they're resilient. They can handle the slips that happen in that moment. And they can handle the mistakes. Because for a person who's resilient, the last thing that disappears if it ever disappears is hope. The first thing that disappears for a person who is not resilient is hope.

00:14:37:12 - 00:15:12:08
Unknown
They give up, I move on, I can't do this. So this is really, really important. So flow unbelievably important. Hope is the thing actually enables you and all these things are giving. So you're giving hope to yourself. Unbelievably important. The next and final element of a quality relation, according to Professor Kim Cameron. And I agree with him and I've spoken to him about it, is compassion, and compassion is empathy action through care.

00:15:12:10 - 00:15:34:16
Unknown
So a narcissist is quite empathic. We all have mirror neurons. So if you're sad and I'm a narcissist and I'm looking at you, I know immediately you're sad, but damn it, it's your business, not mine. Whereas if I'm compassionate, I would say. Cameron, are you okay now? This is with a relationship with others or coaching someone. Or you've got them in a team.

00:15:34:18 - 00:16:01:07
Unknown
You're you're managing them and so forth. This is really important. However, the fundamental relationship you have before you can have a worthwhile quality relationship with someone else is with yourself. So are you trustworthy? Do you trust yourself always? So when you go to the wicked, when you go to the site of a mountain, when you when you get on a slope, whatever it might be, do you trust your judgment?

00:16:01:09 - 00:16:25:22
Unknown
And if you are a bit windy, then it's going to be a bit difficult. Do you give yourself a break when perhaps you make a wrong turn or a misjudgment? Is your intention always to perform at your best? Do you take shortcuts or are you committed intending to do your best? Are you a hopeful person? Do you look for the the sunny days?

00:16:25:24 - 00:16:45:14
Unknown
Do you believe it is possible? Are you resilient? Is hope going to be there for the entire time or is it just going to fall away? And the last one, do you look after yourself? In other words, do you prepare yourself well to for all at your best? Do you practice seriously? Do you eat well? Do you sleep well?

00:16:45:16 - 00:17:13:18
Unknown
You know, exercise? One of the really interesting things about a resilient person is that other people judge them as worthy. Now, if you're not judged as worthy by other people, that irritates yourself worse. And in the end you slide pretty quickly back to not being resilient. So I've traced the life course of a person who's resilient and a person who's not resilient.

00:17:13:20 - 00:17:47:18
Unknown
This goes back to John Baldwin's work on attachment and security. People who get into flow have a sense of a secure attachment. They believe they can. And this is critically important. So a relationship with yourself, which was your go question, is fundamental to anyone who walks to the crease, who goes onto the tennis court, who runs a board meeting, who creates a relationship.

00:17:47:18 - 00:18:24:15
Unknown
These things are fundamentally flawed. If they don't exist, forget about flow. You're not going to get there. You talk about that security or secure attachment. How does that add friction? Or how would the insecurity add friction for that trust a secure person? And this is all the research from Bowlby and mine and many, many others, probably Dan Siegel, Sue Johnson and others, all very simply a secure person can trust themselves and trust others.

00:18:24:17 - 00:18:51:19
Unknown
And in trusting themselves, they can trust their judgment. An insecure person does not trust themselves, and unfortunately, an insecure person is not trusted by others either. And they don't trust others. So, you know, I know this doesn't mean that these people, these people still live their lives in relationships. They still have a relationship with others, but they form a relationship.

00:18:51:19 - 00:19:15:18
Unknown
On getting a benefit rather than getting a benefit, taking value rather than getting value. And this is really, really when you're looking at trying to get a and in any team, you'll have a number of people who are insecure. So this is a something it's very important to get a team in to flow. What you have to do is make it unbelievably safe for them.

00:19:15:20 - 00:19:39:07
Unknown
So at that one moment in this team, they are always safe and to way to do that is to take the secure members of the team and make sure that they don't have power over these other insecure people, but they have power with. So they collaborate rather than compete with. And this is unbelievably important in sport in particular.

00:19:39:09 - 00:20:10:21
Unknown
Our coaches don't know this. In the end, a lot of these insecure people are really able, you know, they can serve well. They've got great backhands, they can play the hookshot, they can climb mountains and so forth. They're intelligent. It's just that they lack that sense of worth that a secure person has. So what we have to do is create a a consolidated in the moment sense of worth for them.

00:20:10:23 - 00:20:35:24
Unknown
Once they leave the team or run off the pitch or whatever, it'll it'll disappear. So how object as a manager of a team or coach of a team, whether it be on a sporting field or in a boardroom or wherever it doesn't matter, is to ensure that in the moment of greatest challenge, every member of that team is safe.

00:20:36:01 - 00:21:09:05
Unknown
If it's safe, they'll feel secure. They will then in that moment, feel as if they are giving and not taking. And that's critically important in an individual sense and create important in a team sense. If you're going to perform at your best, if you going to reach flow and stay there while the task is before you really interesting, suddenly you know something I can relate to, both in sport and also with my own speaking abilities.

00:21:09:08 - 00:21:35:23
Unknown
I'd like yourself saying earlier, I used to stutter as a as a child and was a young adult as well, and I always had that horrible insecurity, that fear of speaking. And what will other people be thinking of me and, and my insecurities led a lot of that thinking, which cannibalized my attentional bandwidth and, and made everything so much more difficult.

00:21:36:03 - 00:22:04:03
Unknown
And there wasn't until I had that personal safety that it doesn't matter what happens. You know, I'm still going to love myself. I'm still going to be the person that I'm proud of, that I could then, I guess, have that personal agility to be able to to change things. Yes. And what is really important is your sense of self-worth is determined not only by your health and wellbeing.

00:22:04:05 - 00:22:28:18
Unknown
Your health and wellbeing is critical. So for a resilient person, you know, diet, exercise and and sleep are really important. Resilience has three major components. The second is psychological, which is how do I feel about myself? Because that's all psychologists do. They try to lift you back to feeling good about yourself in the context in which they find you?

00:22:28:20 - 00:23:03:14
Unknown
And so the doctors in health. So this is important. The third one is what do other people think about me? This is a sociological component to it. And if I think I'm terrific I exercise well in the whole lot. But if everyone else doesn't think I'm terrific within a moment, my self esteem I don't like the word. My self-efficacy is diminished and it doesn't take long, especially for a person who's insecure to actually agree with these people who are judging them as not being up to standard.

00:23:03:16 - 00:23:23:07
Unknown
A secure person is prepared to take that on. And so, you know, hang on a minute. Give me a chance here. I can do this. But a secure person will say, yep, you're concerned for me. So we have a confirmation bias type circumstance. So all these, we can't look at trying to get into flow without understanding it.

00:23:23:07 - 00:24:03:10
Unknown
A deep seated way. How circumstance can, for many, make it incredibly difficult. So what I'm hearing is the importance of our self relationship. That relationship we have with our self enables our performance. And if we have the trust in ourselves, we can deliver. If we have the forgiveness we can give for our future performance, if we have integrity and hope, we can be resilient and allow our best to shine.

00:24:03:10 - 00:24:31:09
Unknown
And if we can be compassionate with ourselves, then we have that agility and self-worth is allowed to flourish, which allows us to be more secure, which allows us to get less distracted in knowing that. How do we do that practically? Like how did you do that practically with yourself and your stammering, or with a sports team, or with an organization?

00:24:31:11 - 00:24:52:12
Unknown
All right. You have to get you know yourself very well, and you have to accept that we're not going to be brilliant at everything we turn to that we have likes and dislikes, that sometimes we have lackeys on our side and we're successful and we can build on that. And sometimes life is not there. And I learned this through stammering.

00:24:52:18 - 00:25:21:19
Unknown
The two ladies that bowled me over were S and N when people I asked them to say the letter S, you squeeze ear out between your tongue and the roof of your mouth and a new tongue goes to the roof. My tongue would know I need and I couldn't say no. So I had to spend a lot of time learning to trust myself with a belief that I could do it rather than I couldn't.

00:25:21:21 - 00:25:47:20
Unknown
And this is where meditation became very important. I had to become more aware that, in fact, when when I was angry and we all fall into this category, we all have a whole range of emotions moment to moment. What we have to do is recognize them and then deal with them in a constructive way. So we need to regulate them.

00:25:47:22 - 00:26:07:23
Unknown
And so I had to recognize when I was coming up to saying no, I had to recognize that this was going to be a bit of a challenge for me, but not become anxious because of I'm anxious that I will stuff it up. So I had to become more confident and more confident. And this is where practice is really important.

00:26:08:00 - 00:26:36:00
Unknown
And this is where seeing was important, because singing actually you, you're singing on a note rather than a language rather than saying something. And it was so often if you ask athletes and so forth, when they're performing, often they have a tune or songs that they go to because previously it proved it was successful. This is really an interesting thing.

00:26:36:00 - 00:26:59:20
Unknown
I ask people and elite sportsmen and kids in class and managers and so forth, what do you like at your best? Write me a paragraph of what you like it only a paragraph, but I want to know 3 or 4 things that you think are absolutely the precursors of that. What four things do you have to have in order for you to be at your best?

00:26:59:22 - 00:27:23:12
Unknown
They can be nonsense. Really. This is really important. They can be nonsense. And it might be. I put my left boot on first or, you know, I've got to have the same breakfast. Or if I don't have a good night's sleep, I can't perform rubbish and so on. And this is really, really, you know, critical. So this is something that all coaches or managers could do.

00:27:23:15 - 00:27:46:02
Unknown
The information is just gold. Often if a person is not performing at your best, you can visit those four precursors and see where they're on order in order. And if they're not or you they are in order, you say something else that's important. This enables people to move from, oh, I don't know whether I can yes, I can.

00:27:46:04 - 00:28:12:03
Unknown
So it moves them to a certain of control. Not overconfident but confident. They they can. And that's critically important for performance. Yeah. And I love the idea of diagnosing through the words and the, the choices of the, the individual helping them to find their precursors and helping them to sort of become more self-aware of what's important. It's critical.

00:28:12:03 - 00:28:36:09
Unknown
Cameron is critical, and this is a very simple task. And I've done it. So years with kids learning to play something she's learning to ride a bike through to I need bedding to the state, kids in class and teachers going in to teach it. Do they feel confidence? And if you allow resentment, you know, I don't know whether I can which is really a form of resentment to rule.

00:28:36:09 - 00:29:04:05
Unknown
Then you will underperform. And Hazel said that when we were in Bali, the question is that we if you're overconfident, you'll you'll shove it up anyway. It's this narrow channel that we've talked about, the high performance channel, and this is the oxygen dodging stuff on stress performance model. The whole, you know, a Dicey and Ryan's self evaluation type stuff.

00:29:04:07 - 00:29:31:21
Unknown
All these things show that this is really important and we I looked at it really closely. It's not just one thing. It's a if you like, a conciliate circumstance where all things come together and once you know all these sorts of things coming together, then as a coach or manager or teacher or whatever, or as an individual, then you can actually overcome it.

00:29:31:23 - 00:29:57:04
Unknown
Laurie Pinkham, who held the world high job record, he says for about six hours, an Olympian for Australia. He said the most difficult thing was he had to keep gout at bay. He had to keep doubt out of the way and it was continually presenting itself. So you have to have a strength of mind to keep it at bay.

00:29:57:06 - 00:30:24:18
Unknown
And Cathy said that this morning she was talking about it's a spiritual experience, seeking a sense of peace when she was running to get to a flow state, she said it was almost transcendent to get there and to to stay there. And she said it brought such joy. Just to run was a joy. And she's like me. She she pats mother on the back, you know, just go for a run, Cathy.

00:30:24:18 - 00:30:50:22
Unknown
Just go for a run. She's five and six and just get out. Run! And there have been stories over the past, you know, all, all the time of people who get a sense of great enjoyment out of performing at their best. But my concern was that people undervalued what they could achieve. And that's why I wanted to do all the sorts of things that I've done.

00:30:50:22 - 00:31:12:22
Unknown
Cameron, you know, why do we have to keep out at bay? You know, I think everyone can relate to that comment. Right? We've been in a situation and it's almost like we have to hold up the fort and keep the fortress strong. Don't allow doubt in through the drawbridge. Is it? The more secure we are, the less doubt we have.

00:31:12:24 - 00:31:44:23
Unknown
Well that's true. However, doubt is really quite. It's a negative emotion. And let me say, to be in flow, you need about one negative emotion. Two, about three or 4 or 5 positive emotions. The reason you need that doubt is that it keeps you on task. The 4 or 5 positives can make you become a little careless rather than careful, so doubt will always be there.

00:31:45:00 - 00:32:19:10
Unknown
But don't be a doubting Thomas. You recognize what it is and what is. Purposes is purpose is to keep us just on task to the acute awareness that we need. And the engagement that we need is is really tied to our capacity to believe in ourselves. And what why do you say doubt will always be there? Oh, because each one of the things that the reptilian brain works on, it keeps us alive.

00:32:19:12 - 00:32:43:19
Unknown
It keeps us alert to danger and so forth. So we can't scrub it away totally. It'll always be there. Each the thing that prompts us to pay attention to a particular task and we can feel it. When you walk into a room, you can feel whether or not you are safe or not. Even if you are very secure person.

00:32:43:21 - 00:33:07:15
Unknown
This is a place we've got to be real careful here, and that alone is you doubt your safety. So these are just critical things I know. Walking to the wicket the first innocently, I doubt it. But then if if doubt took over, I was out quickly. If fear took over, I froze. So I had to overcome the doubt.

00:33:07:15 - 00:33:34:23
Unknown
I had to believe, realistically, that I was playing the best fast bowler in the world at this one moment, and that I had to pay acute attention or I would fail. So that's important. I love the idea of using doubt, you know, often. And same with fear. We often when it takes over our mind and our hearts, we can initially allow it to snowball and think something's wrong.

00:33:34:23 - 00:34:01:10
Unknown
There's a big problem and we almost overreacts and we create that thinking brain goes on hyper alert, creating more distracting thoughts and what if scenarios and triggering even more alarm bells. I think what I've tried to do today is to give an opportunity for people to explore themselves, to go to the relationship they have with themselves. Should I trust themselves?

00:34:01:12 - 00:34:31:00
Unknown
Do they give forgive themselves when they judgment is perhaps a bit awry, or they make a mistake or they fail? So I had here is the start of learning. It's not the end of it. So I had reached the start of the improving. So this is really important is the intention to do the right thing and don't hide yourself, you know, look after yourself, be hopeful.

00:34:31:02 - 00:34:58:24
Unknown
Hope is the type of thing that gets you to the wicket or get you wherever it might be. Your performance is infinitely better if you're hopeful than if you have less hope or I hope less. And finally, kiss yourself, for God's sake. It's really, really important that you believe in yourself and you. You're able then to get rid of the white noise that might be ultra critical.

00:34:59:03 - 00:35:28:07
Unknown
That's unnecessary. Also, critical. And probably the last thing I would like to say is that we work with people. We don't work against them. We have power with rather than power over. We collaborate, we don't compete. And the best piece of advice I hear per head in reference to sport came from my father when I was 15 and I was going to play my first elite premier great game of cricket.

00:35:28:08 - 00:35:48:24
Unknown
I was going to open the betting against Ellen Thompson, who was then opening the bowling for Australia, and my father said, John, who are you playing on Saturday? And I said, we were playing Fitzroy and who plays for Fitzroy? And I said, oh, Alan Thompson, he's opening a ball. And for Australia he's really fast it and he, I said I'm competing against him.

00:35:48:24 - 00:36:21:13
Unknown
And he said, no, you're not John. You're not competing against him. You're playing with him. You're not playing against him. You're playing with him. He's going to do his best. And I hope you can do your best. And I've taken that in everything that I've ever done in life. I've never played against anyone in any sport that I've ever played, and I've never worked against any in a class or I coaching on which people are not have power over.

00:36:21:15 - 00:36:57:16
Unknown
I have power with because you're a coach, because you're a and a business leader or whatever. The only reason that you have been given power, that power is to empower others to do whatever they doing at their best. Your whole task is to empower others. That's why you are a leader. That's why you are a coach. Why would you have someone who's a coach and a leader who wants to have power over us?

00:36:57:18 - 00:37:15:00
Unknown
We know the research. If you ask and assist people perform infinitely better than if you tell them. So. These are just wicked cool things that most people don't even come to grips with in their life.

00:37:15:02 - 00:37:45:15
Unknown
So what are the hallmarks of a healthy self relationship? Most obvious is the ability to enjoy stress when we feel distressed, it's generally because we don't feel capable of living up to the challenges in front of us. When your relationship is strong, you have less negative feelings, less self-critical thoughts, less insecurities, and overall less compounded stress. On the contrary, when our self relationship is compassionate and forgiving, we are more resilient.

00:37:45:17 - 00:38:13:14
Unknown
We're better able to look at failures, feedback, and adversity as temporary setbacks or even as opportunities for growth. Next is self-efficacy or confidence. When we have a strong self relationship, we are confident in who we are and what we can do. We don't drain our psychic resources with unrealistic expectations to placate our ego, or be arrogant to try and hide, and insecurity.

00:38:13:16 - 00:38:39:14
Unknown
As we develop trust in our own capabilities, we become better able to take on new challenges and become confident in being our best. Thirdly, we display empathy. Often our external world mirrors our internal world, and when we are empathetic to our own growth, we are able to see others growing to and seeing our strengths and weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

00:38:39:16 - 00:39:08:17
Unknown
We are better able to see those in others. This empathy creates stronger connections and interactional bonds between ourselves and others, and improves our sense of belonging, increases the filming of our needs to relate. When we become better able to step into someone else's shoes, we can display a high degree of cognitive and psychological flexibility that allows us to do the same with ourselves.

00:39:08:19 - 00:39:29:20
Unknown
How did you go about changing the culture at Geelong Grammar School? That's a very good question. It doesn't take long to change your culture, and I wanted to to help people to be kinder. So what we did did, was wrote our policies on the basis of kindness and forgiveness. So we worked with people rather than did things to them.

00:39:29:22 - 00:39:52:08
Unknown
We enable, grasp and took things away from them. We built it around a relationship a size five basic elements. But if you want to change the culture of a club, a business, anything, there are two very simple things you can do. And this will start you on the path. The first one is pick up paper. I mean that literally and figuratively.

00:39:52:10 - 00:40:13:06
Unknown
Never walk past a piece of paper. Pick it up as the leader and contagion will take over. Everyone in the team will pick it up. Don't walk past behavior. That's unbecoming. Arrested. Don't charge people. Just arrest it. Stop it! Everyone needs to be able to understand that. That's not a difficult task to do. And it's not standing alone.

00:40:13:08 - 00:40:40:10
Unknown
It is standing alone. Initially, this is being an up standard, not a bystander. The second most important thing. So pick up paper is really, really important. The second most important thing is when someone is talking to you, look in the eye and listen effectively. Those two things will mean that you will be able to change a culture. You will get people onside rather than offside.

00:40:40:12 - 00:41:12:02
Unknown
And not only that, that's a requirement that every leader, every coach, every teacher, every parent has to hand if they are going to securely establish a culture that's going to enable rather than disable a resilient culture, a kind and forgiving culture, rather than a non resilient, highly competitive pitting one against another culture. And what are the challenges you face when endeavoring to kind of integrate this change?

00:41:12:04 - 00:41:35:13
Unknown
People were afraid that if you move away from harming people, punishing them, that in fact they would lose control. It's the opposite. You have to have quality relationships. The best way I can explain that is that I have a very old rescue dog. The first day I got him, he was 11 years old. The first I got, he was sitting on the couch and I said, how are you, Moe?

00:41:35:13 - 00:41:59:02
Unknown
And touched him and he bit me. The most important thing. And I use this because I teach by the narrative is what should I have done to mostly I could have belted him, which is the adversarial approach hurt him. That'll stop him from doing it again. But that would mean that I would never create a, that he would never trust me because I hurt him.

00:41:59:04 - 00:42:22:07
Unknown
I don't have that license by law. I don't have that license anyway, so physically I can't, nor can I manipulate it and psychologically exclude him or whatever. So it took not much longer. And now we love one another and I'm going to be very, very upset when he dies, probably this year. He's 17 now. I'll be very upset.

00:42:22:09 - 00:42:45:18
Unknown
The relationship aspect of it is what we work on. So if you want to get your team to flow, you want to get yourself to flow. Be kind. Give yourself a break. Those two things are unbelievably critical. Do you want to help others unleash their performance? Do you want an internationally recognized accreditation to stand out amongst the crowd, or do you want the playbook?

00:42:45:18 - 00:43:10:07
Unknown
I use every day and helping professionals to be their best. Join us at my training organization, the Flow Center. We are on a mission to train a fellowship of experts practitioners to work with us and help make the world a better place. Whether you want to join the Flow Center team as a Flow Coach or continue your professional leadership development, we'll integrate these valuable skills into your organization and team.

00:43:10:09 - 00:43:18:14
Unknown
Go to Flow center.org today.

00:43:18:16 - 00:43:49:21
Unknown
So John, what is the biggest obstacle that you found for people implementing these principles? I think they adapt their capacity to do so. I don't think they feel secure and consequently they they lose hope pretty quickly. They're not resilient. They don't manage the mistakes well. So they seal. Perhaps I can't rattle that. I can. And that really gives them not a good platform to kick off from.

00:43:49:23 - 00:44:15:07
Unknown
I say, you know, to get the flow, you have to forgive yourself because you will make many mistakes on the way, your trip and so forth. Often for many people, when they make an error, hope evaporates. For people who are resilient, when they make an error, it just stimulates them to be more hopeful. So they believe they can rather than they can't.

00:44:15:09 - 00:44:44:02
Unknown
And when you're talking to people about that, sportsman is a really good example. When they make a mistake, a sportsman who is not resilient or sportswoman is not resilient. It's obvious because they've made a mistake. So in a sport like I was involved in, it's cricket, they got out. And when they analyze they come up with all the bat was too heavy or the wicket was too soft or it was a fluke of a catch.

00:44:44:05 - 00:45:12:03
Unknown
So they're looking for blame and shame. They're looking for an explanation for failure. Whereas a person who is resilient accepts it. The mistake is made, and instead of looking for blame and shame, they look to analyze it more closely and to learn from the mistake. Whereas the non resilient person doesn't learn from their mistake. This cripples them if you like, on the state level or the flow.

00:45:12:05 - 00:45:35:19
Unknown
It just stops them from getting there. And so really simple for a coach who's looking to see if someone can actually if they can say sponsor somebody to flow is when they make a mistake is the first word that they say, yes, well, we've made the mistake, but and that takes them back and holds and imprisons them where they are.

00:45:35:21 - 00:46:02:07
Unknown
They won't learn from their mistake. Whereas a resilient person who can get the flow will say yes, and and that releases them to investigate, to learn, and to give themselves a break rather than to punish themselves. And that's where forgiveness comes. Yeah. I resonate so deeply with that. And when we're secure enough, we can deal with failure in a way that's open.

00:46:02:13 - 00:46:25:08
Unknown
You know that when we have belief we don't need to use, but we just we can learn and grow and continue to find our flow. And, when we are insecure, failure becomes a, a problem that we need to, or we feel that it's a problem. We tend to hide when we fail if we're not resilient and, we, we go into self-protection.

00:46:25:08 - 00:46:51:13
Unknown
So it's the old brain. It's it's the brain stem that comes in. It's flight inside. So we just go into self-protection. And I like to use two terms. A a a person who can get into flow is resilient and reasonably confident. But, and there's a word that I use is that they prospect whereas a person who doesn't get into flow, they protect, not prospect.

00:46:51:15 - 00:47:25:02
Unknown
So they hold themselves, they imprison themselves in a lack of belief. And that goes back to the whole business, that you must trust yourself to get the flow. You must be trustworthy. So you trust your techniques, all the things around you. And if it's a team flow, you know, trust your teammates and so on. Whereas a person who is not resilient, who doesn't handle mistake well, it doesn't give themselves a break.

00:47:25:02 - 00:47:51:10
Unknown
So they don't give for themselves, which is the forgiveness thing. They don't trust their own judgment live. They trust the judgment of someone else so they can listen to a coach who's been there and say, look, I can get there, but I just don't trust that. And so this is where, you know, experience is important, but it is a matter of your self-worth.

00:47:51:12 - 00:48:15:13
Unknown
And I love the simplicity of how we deal with failure, how an organization deals with failure, or how I might deal with failure is a really nice, simple way of assessing the relationship we have with ourself. You know, success is the self-talk and the. Absolutely. And of course, as I said, you know, Tim Cameron's work and what is a virtuous institution?

00:48:15:15 - 00:48:37:22
Unknown
What are you talking about? And what is an institution that can manage failure in a constructive way. And now allowing people to be curious, to have a license, to have a go at things, to actually stick towards flow and understand that they are getting there and this is going to be peak performance for them. Focus and engagement is acute.

00:48:37:24 - 00:48:49:09
Unknown
Tuk, and it has to be for you to be performing at your best anyway.

00:48:49:11 - 00:49:17:19
Unknown
Well, John, thank you so much for your time as we do with all guests. We we asked just a couple of questions. One book or film that you feel has changed your life and you want to let others? Nine. Yes. 12 Angry Men. It's a brilliant film and it is a film that really is, in my opinion, it's a film where you learn to stand alone, to strongly commit yourself to a task.

00:49:17:21 - 00:49:36:09
Unknown
So if people haven't seen 12 Angry Men and the the black and white version is better than the updated color one, go back and look at it. It's a brilliant film. Thank you. Yeah, I've never seen it, let alone heard of it. Looking forward to adding that to my list. Oh, you must add it to your list.

00:49:36:09 - 00:50:16:18
Unknown
It is an amazing film. And how one person, you know, most complicated and demanding circumstance can, through just. She is strength of mind, change the mind of leaving other people to actually find the right answer rather than the convenient one. Definitely piqued my curiosity. The best book I've read that probably directs me to flow, and I'd mentioned it to you before, is trying not to try by Edward Slingerland.

00:50:16:20 - 00:50:43:11
Unknown
And if people haven't read that, and I suggest that they try to and the and I got it here with me. Cameron, I just want to read you what I would. Flanagan, who's the James B Duke professor of philosophy at Duke University, has written about it and Flanagan was one of the, was the selected Western philosopher to go to the Dalai Lama in the year 2000, along with all Neurosci.

00:50:43:12 - 00:51:20:02
Unknown
Artists and performance sciences and so forth. He said it it would signal and is one of the world's leading comparative philosophers and the foremost advocates for bridging the gulf between cognitive science and humanities. In trying not to try, he reminds us that philosophy truly is a way of life that classical Chinese philosophy offers deep insights into human flourishing, and that this classical Chinese wisdom anticipates in compelling ways what the best contemporary cognitive science reaches.

00:51:20:04 - 00:52:00:06
Unknown
This is a landmark book, clear, sparkling and humane, and he goes on to even say that this is we're talking here about Wu Way in the force, in Star Wars and so forth. He actually says that way is more powerful and flow, and tells us what it all means for getting to our base. So it was the book that I got that was leading me into, and it confirmed just so many things that I had tried and and missed out on, but thought it's worth trying again and to finally get into flow.

00:52:00:08 - 00:52:41:16
Unknown
Yeah, it's a great book and also highlights the kind of cognitive psychology around, around effortless action and flow. Fantastic book. It's time to flip the mike. Where can we more effectively reach into the lives of just the common person with flow? My feeling is helping everyone, first of all, identify in their lives. In the small moments so often flow is seen as this elusive state that we need to strive to achieve, and most notable for the infrequent times that are immensely powerful and we remember from a lifetime.

00:52:41:16 - 00:53:16:15
Unknown
But flow turns up every single day, you know, in most of our lives, but we're just not apparent to it. And if we can have that kind of visibility in it, our belief around finding it, our belief about being worthy to to be in, in an optimal space, to sort of, as Marianne Williamson talks about not being afraid of our light, you then being able to step into our light if we can see it in the everyday example, then we can believe that we're not only capable of it, but worthy of it, and then we can kind of step into it.

00:53:16:15 - 00:53:40:09
Unknown
So, a lot of my when I work one on one with the individual, they might come to me for a specific domain, such as I'm a surgeon or I'm a leader or sportsman, but we end up working on how they can find flow in the kitchen, on how they can find flow in their conversations with their with their partners.

00:53:40:11 - 00:54:03:21
Unknown
And by having that kind of day to day focus, I feel that that really helps bring flow into the more common everyday scenario and language. Yes, I think you're right. It's like the sun coming up and then clouds come over and the clouds go away, and all of a sudden you can actually see you can actually see it.

00:54:03:23 - 00:54:24:03
Unknown
Cameron, I congratulate you on on the work you're doing to try and get it out there, but I wish everyone would have a sense of could be trustworthy of themselves and and curious enough to pursue it. It's great, but you get there. Oh, John, thank you so much. It's been really nice chatting with you and, I look forward to chatting again soon.

00:54:24:05 - 00:54:31:12
Unknown
Fantastic. Thank you. Flow unleashed.

00:54:31:14 - 00:54:55:09
Unknown
So how can we put John Henry's work into action? Firstly, it is important to check in with yourself. Like any good relationship, it helps to set time aside to nurture it. Checking in to see how we are treating ourselves only needs to take a minute or so, similar to how we would reflect on how we are treating a friend or family member.

00:54:55:11 - 00:55:37:03
Unknown
We can do the same with ourself. Take a moment to ask, how are you really feeling? What thoughts are being sticky and what do you keep hearing yourself say to yourself? Secondly, prioritize self-compassion. Cultivating compassion entails treating yourself with the same kindness and empathy you would offer to your best friend. Forgive yourself to give for your future capacity, and no matter how much you regret your actions, know that what you did or who you were in the past does not need to defined who you are in the present.

00:55:37:05 - 00:56:07:16
Unknown
We are all perfectly imperfect. There is no escape from our own humanity. Thirdly, enable clear boundaries for yourself. Know where to draw the line with others and yourself. What behaviors or comments are unacceptable? What do you need to say no to? To keep yourself safe and secure? Setting boundaries might feel awkward at first, but will help to fulfill your needs and make you more trustworthy and predictable.

00:56:07:18 - 00:56:34:23
Unknown
In the eyes of others. Know your value so you can say no to behaviors that will breach your value system. By defining yourself and your boundaries, you will become more confident and your self-respect will rise. Next, build self-care routines, whether it's going to the dentist or the gym. Show yourself that you care about yourself. Remind yourself that it's not selfish to take care of yourself.

00:56:34:23 - 00:57:02:22
Unknown
Rather, it is a non-negotiable that allows you to be centered and more loving and giving to others. It is important not to put other people's needs ahead of yours, otherwise you will not be in a good place to help them. Take time to regularly reset, recharge and recover. It is also important to embrace your uniqueness. We are all sons of the earth, designed to be just who we are.

00:57:02:24 - 00:57:32:03
Unknown
Denying that will only self shackle your ability and fulfillment potential. It is an embracing who we are, warts and all that we liberate ourselves and liberate our ability to see and love others beyond their masks and insecurities. When we work to our strengths and develop a greater internal alignment, flow is more likely to occur. Lastly, be careful with the words you use when talking to yourself.

00:57:32:05 - 00:57:48:21
Unknown
They may well end up defining much more than you can imagine. If you would like to find out more about John Henry and his work, please see the show notes.

00:57:48:23 - 00:58:19:21
Unknown
Thank you for listening to Flow Unleashed. If you enjoyed listening, please subscribe to get notified when our next episode drops. The more people that subscribe. The better I can make the show for you equally. Please leave a review. Your review will go a long way to helping others find this spot. Until the next time. Thank you for listening to Flo Unleashed.