Kerry Howells

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Flow. Unleashed, unleashed. Do you know how to overcome the frustrations and resentment that often spoil your daily experience?

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Welcome to Flow Unleashed. I'm Doctor Cameron Norsworthy, scientist and High-Performance coach to multiple world champions. In this show, we unpack key insights on specific topics so that you are kept up to date with the latest science and practice of human performance.

00:00:46:23 - 00:01:12:20
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I think most people could agree that gratitude is an important component of feeling good and living a fulfilled life. Indeed, most meta analytic reviews are in consensus that gratitude is highly correlated and perhaps causally linked to well-being. For example, many studies have found that people who consciously count the blessings tend to be happier and less depressed. The effects of gratitude doesn't stop there.

00:01:12:22 - 00:01:38:14
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Performers activate a sense of gratitude to stay calm, improve their heart rate, coherence, and decision making to better access flow. Gratitude practices are also used by many coaches to help people through low points in their lives. For example, seeing the collateral Beauty and being grateful for what we do have in life, even if it is for just being alive.

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Being grateful can ignite hope, motivation and aspiration. In one study, psychologist Robert Emmons of the University of California and Michael McCulloch of the University of Miami asked participants to write a few sentences each week, focusing on different topics. One group wrote about the things they were grateful for. A second group wrote about daily irritations. And the third group wrote about events that had affected them, with no emphasis on them being positive or negative.

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After only ten weeks of writing down weekly reflections, the group who wrote about gratitude displayed more optimism and felt better about their lives. Unexpectedly, they also exercise more and reported fewer health issues than the group that focused on displeasing irritations. Martin Seligman, a psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania and possibly the most famous positive psychology researcher of all, found that the gratitude intervention of writing and personally delivering a letter of gratitude, someone who had never been properly thanked for his or her kindness, increased happiness more than any other happiness intervention, with benefits lasting for months socially.

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Gratitude has also been correlational, linked to reduced feelings of social isolation, enhance social relationships, improve social bonds and socially inclusive behaviors, and the encouragement of relationship formation and connections. In terms of physical health. Gratitude has been associated with many physiological benefits such as reduced headaches, muscle fatigue, feelings of nausea, as well as better cardiovascular health. So much so that in a study conducted by Red wine colleagues, heart failure patients who participated in a gratitude intervention displayed important benefits of reduced inflammation and increased parasympathetic heart rate variability compared to those in the control group, from reducing the stress hormone cortisol in pregnant women to being considered as a natural and effective buffer against the negative effects

00:03:49:14 - 00:04:24:19
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of stress. The practice of gratitude seems to offer more than one would suspect at first encounter. In the past two decades, a growing body of evidence in the field of social science has found that gratitude has measurable benefits for just about every area of our lives. So much so that the Greater Good Science Center at the University of California, Berkeley, a leader in research on the science of social and emotional well-being, describes gratitude as the social glue key to building and nurturing strong relationships.

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Yet despite this academic and practical prominence, gratitude is often left out of the most important virtues, emotions and attitudes. Today, we are giving gratitude centerstage. We will discuss why gratitude is important and how it is the antidote to our biggest emotional poison. One individual who knows a lot about this topic is our guest today, Doctor Kerry House. Kerry has over 30 years of experience, research and teaching and presenting on the topic of gratitude.

00:05:01:06 - 00:05:32:09
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She is an author, award winning educator, and visiting professor at Tulane University. Her first book, Gratitude in Education A Radical View, has been used widely to guide the development of educational programs and strategic change in universities, schools, and early childhood education. Flow unleashed. Hey, Kerry, thanks for joining us today. Pleasure, Cameron. How has your research added to the field of gratitude and resentment?

00:05:32:10 - 00:05:57:16
Unknown
Well, when I first started researching gratitude about 25 years ago, and at that at that time there wasn't much available and I was considered to be some kind of witch by many of my academic colleagues, because in those days, university education was very much about objective, critical thinking and the subjective world of the student didn't really have any relationship to what university was all about.

00:05:57:18 - 00:06:27:07
Unknown
And yet, when I suggested to my students that university that gratitude could really help with their learning, they started to get really interested and really, and really responded to gratitude strategies that I was introducing. And so I persevered. And then I realized that my own gratitude was having an influence on their gratitude. So then I developed a whole pedagogy around teacher gratitude.

00:06:27:07 - 00:06:57:12
Unknown
And then the teachers would say to me, yeah, but what about the leaders? So then I developed a whole pedagogy around, leadership. And as I said at the time, there wasn't much around. And I was the first person to write the first book on gratitude in education in regards to teachers and and leaders and there's been quite a few ways in which I've pioneered gratitude as a concept, because I'm a philosopher rather than a positive psychologist.

00:06:57:14 - 00:07:26:03
Unknown
And my research has uncovered a lot about how we can look at gratitude in terms of its opposite, which is resentment. And there hasn't been much written about that as well. So I think my research has really contributed to the conceptual understanding of gratitude and its opposite resentment and the interplay between those two, but also in its application to various fields like elite sports or levels of education.

00:07:26:03 - 00:07:50:23
Unknown
And also, I've worked with an oncologist in Sydney who is looking at the role of gratitude in end of life care for cancer patients. So the application of my research has been pretty wide, fascinating, and I'm looking forward to unpacking some of those points. But firstly, how did you get into gratitude yourself? How did you become fascinated in the constructs?

00:07:51:00 - 00:08:13:08
Unknown
I think I've always, I think without being conscious of it, always thought that there's a lot in life to be grateful for, and I always thought that I really need to orientate myself. Not always, but I've had this kind of inherent sense of its importance in my life, but it became really clear as, as I just said, it became really clear.

00:08:13:08 - 00:08:36:04
Unknown
When I started teaching my students at university, I was teaching a class because and many of the students who I thought were really blessed to come in and learn this course would come in really disgruntled and dissatisfied and and they'd just come back from their Club Med holidays and or they just being, you know, they'd parking their beautiful car next to my old bum in the car park.

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Unknown
And I was really concerned about their lack of gratitude. And this was, of course, they all had to do. And it wasn't only me who was feeling this, it was a whole lot of other, teachers who were teaching on this course. So I just after taking the course and really struggling with their attitude, I just stopped. The third time I was teaching, I then said, hey guys, what about gratitude?

00:08:59:21 - 00:09:38:08
Unknown
And they very intriguing to me. They wanted to know more. And so I together we developed a whole lot of strategies. And at that time also our most of my life had had a really difficult relationship with my mother. And I wasn't able to name it up as resentment. But looking back, I can see that a lot of our relationship was marked by resentment and I suggested to one of to my students, I suggested to my students to, well, I've been trying to work out what they were most grateful for, and many of them would say, my parents.

00:09:38:10 - 00:09:57:23
Unknown
And because of that, I started to really reflect on the lack of gratitude to my mother. Then in the end, I decided to act on a gratitude practice, which I suggested to them, which is to write a gratitude letter. So I wrote a gratitude letter to my mother, and I realized I hadn't expressed gratitude to her for many, many years.

00:09:58:01 - 00:10:24:19
Unknown
I couldn't really remember when I'd last thanked her. And as a result of that, later our resentment towards each other really diminished, and I started to feel deep gratitude not only towards her, but about many aspects of my life which I was trying to reach into with gratitude. But I couldn't. And then I was able to realize how much resentment was really robbing what I called deep gratitude.

00:10:24:23 - 00:10:42:16
Unknown
And so then it kind of developed from there because I realized that in my own life. So I had to kind of practice what I preached with my students in my own life. And through that, I was able to realize the actual real importance of gratitude. And unfortunately, my mother passed away six months after I wrote her that letter.

00:10:42:18 - 00:11:12:19
Unknown
So it was really good timing for me to to recognize the importance of expressing gratitude to our parents and to help move away from resentment. Not an easy task. Really powerful. And I'm really happy for you that that timing, you were able to go through that pathway just prior. So just to sort of unpack because there's a bit of confusion around some of these terms and, and perhaps we'll get into gratitude later.

00:11:12:19 - 00:11:45:00
Unknown
And, you know, you mentioned deep practice there and we'll touch on that later. But the story you just shared is, you know, probably one that we can all identify with. We all have resentment for individuals, either in family or otherwise. And getting over that resentment is often a hurdle, you know, and it can taint and mar our perspective on things and change our decision making and so forth, and also just stay in our our experience, in our interactions with them.

00:11:45:02 - 00:12:30:07
Unknown
How would you describe resentment? So resentment is the experience of bitter indignation at having being treated in a certain way. And it usually comes as a kind of shock because of either broken expectations or being made to feel inferior. And our whole orientation to the world is really shaken up. And resentment is known as the emotion of justice, because we feel like we have to hold on to resentment to be able to make sense and and to be able to make a proclamation about the seeming injustice that we've we feel like we've experienced.

00:12:30:09 - 00:12:52:02
Unknown
So resentment, it starts out with a feeling, but it also can become a way of being in the world, or a way of responding to a particular relationship. And the reason why it's called resentment is because it needs, I believe it needs to be recent, but it can't be because it gets stuck in our in our whole psyche and we can't move on.

00:12:52:04 - 00:13:16:17
Unknown
And so as a result, we can feel like we ruminate a lot or we we feel we can experience insomnia and a whole lot of other physical ailments because it gets lodged in our being or in our psyche, and we can't move on from the pain or hurt that someone's caused us. I love that statement. You just said there about it being needs to be present.

00:13:16:19 - 00:13:35:21
Unknown
Can you explain a bit more about that? Oh yeah. That's just my play on the word. But yeah, one of the characteristics of resentment that it gets stuck and no matter how much we try to move on, we can't. So going back to that situation with my mother, I really wanted to love her and move past my resentment.

00:13:35:21 - 00:14:00:11
Unknown
But because I'd felt so wronged as a child, I couldn't do that. I couldn't move past it. So, and so it needs to be present and, and, and I've been exploring a whole lot of ways in which it can be recent positively, but often it gets recent in our bodies by, by causing headaches and ailments that I just mentioned.

00:14:00:13 - 00:14:24:23
Unknown
Or it can come out in really dysfunctional ways in workplaces or in families or friendships where we go over the injustice again and again through backbiting the other person or backstabbing them, even though we don't mean to be, but we will keep on processing the pain, to be able to make sense and be able to gain justice and be able to get reinforcement for our feelings from others.

00:14:25:01 - 00:14:48:19
Unknown
So it gets, I believe it gets present in in three ways. So the first two are really negative, but the third one, which is to proactively work on gratitude and a whole lot of other strategies that I've developed, can be a more positive way of resenting resentment. And what do you feel needs to be resent? Is it the pain or the anger?

00:14:48:21 - 00:15:18:12
Unknown
It's the pain. The shock, the indignation, the sense of injustice, the bitterness. There's often, kind of screaming inside us that says, how could you? And so that really wants to be recent as well. It wants the other person to know that this is really not right. And it can be really little things. It doesn't have to be really traumatic.

00:15:18:13 - 00:15:44:22
Unknown
These shocks are happening to many of us, you know, at least every week, if not every day. These little things that keep on building up and building up. Yeah, you've talked about in some of your work, the everyday resentments, some of the causes, the two typical ones are broken expectations and being made to feel inferior. Yes. So are the examples of everyday resentment.

00:15:44:22 - 00:16:09:12
Unknown
Could be that you're not getting a promotion, even though everyone, you and everyone else around you thinks that you're the one who deserves a promotion. It could be the barking dog next door that the neighbor refuses to quiet. And so you can't sleep very well. It could be your best friend telling secrets, telling your secrets behind your back.

00:16:09:14 - 00:16:35:14
Unknown
It could be, your boss putting you down a lot in front of others. Not really knowingly, but treating you really in an inferior way compared to other people. So a lot of emphasis is being given in the literature to the more traumatic kinds of resentment that sewer wars and domestic violence and genocide and things like that.

00:16:35:16 - 00:16:59:20
Unknown
But not much has been talked about in terms of the everyday resentments. And my work is trying to bring those to the fore, because I think it's the everyday resentments that accumulate and grow and grow and can lead to the more traumatic ones. So I think we've we've got to really bring resentment more out into the floor and do something about it in our everyday lives, not just.

00:16:59:22 - 00:17:25:10
Unknown
And that is often hard to do because resentment by its nature likes to be hidden. And it especially in in the Western society, it comes with a lot of shame because we want to be nice and grateful and positive and we we also feel ashamed that we're holding on to this small, seemingly small resentment in the face of gods or in the face of all the atrocities that are going on in the world.

00:17:25:12 - 00:17:45:14
Unknown
We can feel ashamed that we can't move on, and we feel like we're not strong enough to move on. So we don't really want to acknowledge that. And we don't really certainly don't want to talk about it openly with the other person because we feel that we should have moved on, but we can't. So it's very tricky. Resentment is a very tricky thing.

00:17:45:16 - 00:18:09:07
Unknown
And I think we, I think we've got to outsmart it because it is so tricky. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier it's it's almost a way of being say I'm imagine have you seen in some of your research how when people hold on to resentment, it becomes this self-fulfilling prophecy in the sense that they create more of it in their life?

00:18:09:09 - 00:18:31:02
Unknown
Yes, it does. And some people can be very in touch with that. Like I, I, I remember being interviewed on the radio and there was a talkback and people one person rang in and said, yeah, but I love my resentment. I don't want to let go of it. I feel so resentful to my cheating husband 20 years ago and now it's become my way of being in the world.

00:18:31:02 - 00:18:53:03
Unknown
And they were very proud of it as a as a statement, because it is a statement of justice in their mind. But as Nelson Mandela says, resentment is like drinking another person's poison and hoping it will kill them. But actually, it's killing yourself. Like when we feel like we've got to hold onto the resentment to hurt the other person, to make them wrong.

00:18:53:05 - 00:19:17:16
Unknown
But also, and they've moved on, they don't really give it to them, or they might not even know that they've caused that resentment. So this is why it's very tricky, because it resentment makes us feel like we're, not condoning the other person's behavior and we're getting justice, but actually we're not. We're actually hurting ourselves. And hurting others who are affected by our resentment as well.

00:19:17:18 - 00:19:51:16
Unknown
The other person may not even get affected at all. So how does gratitude unlock that hiding of the resentment and the holding onto the resentment? Yeah, I've I've talked about how gratitude has this great illuminating power to do that. So, for example, when I'm talking in in a big presentation, for example, I can already tell in people's minds they're going, oh yeah, I can be grateful to this person, this person, this person, but I will never, ever, ever be grateful to this person because they've caused me so much pain.

00:19:51:16 - 00:20:19:04
Unknown
And that would be so not real of me to do that. So inauthentic for me to do that. So whenever we can't be grateful to someone, that is a sign that we actually have resentment towards them. And because gratitude and resentment are conceptually completely opposite. Every time we take a step out of resentment, this is never about replacing resentment with gratitude, because that is very inauthentic.

00:20:19:04 - 00:20:43:21
Unknown
And that is just like putting a positive veneer over a negative situation which is crying out for attention. So it's not about just keeping the status quo and going straight into gratitude, because I think that's quite dangerous. But it is very helpful to know that because they're conceptually opposite. Every time we step or take a step out of resentment, we're taking a step towards gratitude.

00:20:43:21 - 00:21:10:16
Unknown
We're allowing gratitude to have a greater hold and resentment to have less of a hold. And that that exploring that dynamic and how it works in difficult relationships can be very helpful to people. You mentioned that just sort of flip flopping in between the two can be dangerous. Do you mean in the sense that we forget our personal boundaries, or we negate the internal anger that might need to be expressed?

00:21:10:20 - 00:21:42:04
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And often the only way we can get justice is to talk to the other person about the pain we feel that they've hurt us, especially if that is ongoing, like in a relationship or in a bullying situation at work, or a situation where the boss is putting you down all the time. If that's just going to continue and keep undermining your sense of self, then definitely conversations need to be had.

00:21:42:06 - 00:22:10:08
Unknown
But that's really difficult if there's a power relationship going on or like between boss and employee, between teacher and student. And it's also one of the scariest things anyone could ever do is to actually speak about how somebody has caused us to speak directly to the person about what they might have done to us, hurt us because it takes and it takes a lot of courage to do so.

00:22:10:10 - 00:22:45:09
Unknown
So that's why resentment keeps staying stuck and can't be. We sent because we're too afraid to actually confront the other person. We we haven't. I'd think as a as as a culture, we haven't really learned how to do that. Well, although there are some countries that do it really well, like in Italy, they just forever talking about their resentment and being very, very and and in Estonia, where I've done a lot of work that they, they really they've got lots of words for resentment because resentment is something that, that they like to acknowledge in their culture.

00:22:45:09 - 00:23:13:05
Unknown
But in Australian culture, for example, in British culture, in American culture, it's it's as I said before, it's quite hard and it's quite hidden because we like to put on this nice persona. But I think, I think in order for us to move towards gratitude, sometimes the the injustice needs to be addressed in some way, and it could be through counseling and other things.

00:23:13:05 - 00:23:53:00
Unknown
But if it keeps going on, sometimes we're forced to leave the job that we really wanted to stay in or leave the relationship, even though we've got children or, you know, because we just don't really have the capacity to address resentments when they come up. It's fascinating, you know, and I often think of resentment as being, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking you mentioned earlier that point of justice, you know, and I've had resentments where I've held onto with family members and, and there's this but it's it's just been unfair.

00:23:53:05 - 00:24:19:00
Unknown
And I'm angry and I feel like I need to sort of hold on to it. And it almost becomes a motivator and it becomes, a driver, and it fixates the perspective and the thoughts and the and my end up my behavior and, and then stops me seeing opportunities and and all the rest of it. Yes. How do we move past that resentment but still feel that sense of justice?

00:24:19:02 - 00:24:45:15
Unknown
Well, I think that we it's really important question, Cameron, because I think we can get justice without holding on to resentment. We we can actually make it. We can actually say, yeah, that has actually broken my expectations. That has actually made me feel inferior. And that is not right. But I'm going to choose not to hold on to the resentment about that.

00:24:45:17 - 00:25:19:04
Unknown
I'm going to seek justice in other ways by, for example, never being like that to anybody myself and learning from it, taking the courageous and brave move of talking about it to the other person, etc.. So it requires action and it requires vigilance because resentment can take hold so quickly. But to recognize I have this statement where I just say resentment is never okay, resentment is never okay, even though it's natural and it's within most of us.

00:25:19:06 - 00:26:07:12
Unknown
I think we've got to make it not okay, because the toxicity of it, both for our health and our relationships, the price is too high. And so to outsmart resentment, we can still seek justice but not make resentment. That way of seeking justice. And how would we distinguish between anger and resentment, or resentment and envy? Okay, so anger and and envy and disappointment, usually the beginning stages of resentment where and if we don't express that and we hold on to it, anger and disappointment and more like emotions where we can actually move on, we can have that energy in motion and express it in some way, whereas resentment is stuck.

00:26:07:13 - 00:26:31:09
Unknown
It can't move on. And if the anger is not expressed and it comes with a sense of injustice, that's often leading to resentment as well. So you can still have anger, but it's not necessarily associated with injustice, whereas resentment is where, our sense of self, where our moral code has been violated in some way, and harbored and harbored.

00:26:31:09 - 00:27:02:00
Unknown
Yes. Habit is a good word. And this ship has come in for repairs and never going out to you. Never going out again. Yeah. And grudge is a really good word as well, to describe resentment. You hold a grudge, Yeah. And, you know, there's there's a common expression I forgive, but I'll never forget. And and you know that feeling when somebody comes to and says, I really forgive you, but underneath, you know that you haven't been forgiven because they're never going to forget.

00:27:02:02 - 00:27:27:01
Unknown
The relationship's changed forever. There's you can feel their resentment even in the way they're speaking about their forgiveness that not forget. I forgive but not forget that not forgetting part is where resentment lives. So to truly forgive, we need to also address the underlying resentment. That's when true forgiveness happens. Lovely. When we say, oh, I'm not going to forget that.

00:27:27:01 - 00:27:54:09
Unknown
That's us saying, I'm not. I'm not going to make your action right. I'll never forgive that action by making it right, and I'll never condone that action. But we can. As I said, we can still have that statement about how we live in the world, but the emotive response of resentment underneath that, that needs to be shifted in order to trigger forgiveness to happen.

00:27:54:10 - 00:28:17:19
Unknown
Yeah. And I think, you know, from just speaking personally here rather than academically, I think it's, you know, what's helped me in the past is being able to understand that everything changes. The past is the past and the present is the present. And I'm a different person from one day to the next, certainly a different person years after certain events.

00:28:17:19 - 00:29:01:08
Unknown
And so is the other person. And maybe I'm a I'm a, too much of an optimist. But I believe everyone, you know, does things at some level because they think it's going to have a positive effect, you know, even dysfunctional habits or, things that society might deem as illegal or, immoral. Yeah. Internally, that individual has created some kind of narrative or rhetoric, but it will it will serve them in some way and helping understand that that has helped me to to move on and actually get to that place of forget rather than just a cognitive place of forgive.

00:29:01:10 - 00:29:35:11
Unknown
Are there any sort of practical pointers that you could help listeners move from forgive to forget? Yeah, I think that this is where gratitude comes in, because I don't really I'm not a psychologist talking purely about resentment. I'm talking about the interplay between gratitude and resentment. And I think as quickly as we can to get back to the consciousness of how these are playing out in our lives, because resentment makes us forget the good that we've received from the other person.

00:29:35:13 - 00:30:14:10
Unknown
And gratitude helps us remember the good. And that's the power of gratitude. So if we can shift, find, find out, find something bigger heartedness in ourselves to shift from what we feel has been taken away and move towards remembering what we've been given. That's very healing and can really speed, speed the process on a lot, a lot. And even to go there with the person and say, look, I want to come from that space of gratitude for what we've had, not from this space of what I feel like has been taken away from me.

00:30:14:12 - 00:30:47:08
Unknown
That can be very, very powerful. And getting back to those conversations where the relationship often needs to be repaired through brave conversations about how we've been hurt by these words before having those conversations like, this because this relationship matters to me, because you matter to me. I really want us to have this, open, healing conversation.

00:30:47:10 - 00:31:14:11
Unknown
Those words. If a person knows that they really matter, then that can really help the the conversation move on. So I think doing having gratitude strategies for me, it was writing a letter to my mother, gratitude letter to my mother where I actually had to look for the good because I was so consumed with the bad. And that really, really helped healing on so many different levels.

00:31:14:13 - 00:31:53:02
Unknown
I love that statement because you matter to me. It really drops the defensive guard and allows everyone to see the value that's trying to be created within that interaction. Yeah. It's lovely. Yeah, I know you've grappled with gratitude a lot over the years as well as. Technically and I guess academically, trying to define the construct somewhat to help increase clarity in the cohesion of literature and so forth.

00:31:53:04 - 00:32:23:22
Unknown
How would you describe gratitude today? Yes, it's been an evolving concept. And so I've coined this term deep gratitude because I think it's a real craft, an art form, and something that we should be continuously trying to master. It's easy and it's profound and it's straightforward, but it on the other hand, when we're trying to practice it in relationships, there's a lot to learn.

00:32:24:00 - 00:32:59:10
Unknown
So gratitude to me is an acknowledgment of what we have received from another person or another situation. And then the active practice of giving back out of acknowledgment for what we've received. And this giving back doesn't need to necessarily be a tit for tat or with reciprocity. It can be just, for example, a teacher might be really grateful to teach at a particular school, but instead of giving directly to the school, they might give back by greeting their students with a heart of gratitude.

00:32:59:16 - 00:33:38:01
Unknown
That might be their practice. So the reason why I call it deep gratitude is it starts with a sense of appreciation for what we've been received. But that's not gratitude until it's acted upon in some way. And then it becomes deep gratitude. And is it a a state or people would often be familiar with things being a thought or a feeling and often talk about an experiential state, which also encompasses perspective and volition and but in your work, you've also called it an inner attitude.

00:33:38:02 - 00:34:06:02
Unknown
Yes. I think we've got to move past gratitude being a feeling, because that's just so. For example, busy teachers, most of my research is deliberately, unconsciously taking place in really challenging situations. So I go into really difficult schools where gratitude seems impossible. I go to really, difficult countries where gratitude is really threatened because of the the trauma that people have experienced.

00:34:06:04 - 00:34:34:18
Unknown
And I deliberately look at gratitude in the context of adversity and those who are going through challenges to hold on to gratitude for any period of time as a feeling is really hard. For example, busy teachers who are working with challenging students, they they feel a whole lot of other emotions. And if we're just limiting gratitude to a feeling, they may feel that they've failed in gratitude because they weren't able to hold that feeling of gratitude for a very long time.

00:34:34:20 - 00:35:03:00
Unknown
So I like to look at gratitude as an inner attitude that we develop over time. And the way we develop gratitude as a, as an inner attitude over time is, is to consciously practice it in the midst of adversity, in the midst of difficult relationships. Then we can really develop an inner attitude of gratitude, which is pretty unshakable, and it becomes an, like a general outlook through which we see life.

00:35:03:02 - 00:35:29:09
Unknown
And if you meet people who haven't been impacted by the difficulties in their lives, you can see that gratitude just oozing out of that every being, every every part of their being because they they've consciously chosen to respond to life with gratitude because they're very aware of not taking anything for granted, or their life might have been threatened in some way.

00:35:29:09 - 00:35:55:14
Unknown
And now they have life like people who come back from cancer or those who escaped war torn areas like refugees. If they're if their adversity has invaded them, they can come through that with really a real inner attitude of gratitude. And we can learn a lot from those people. So how do you go about helping people to become grateful and adopt gratitude?

00:35:55:16 - 00:36:34:00
Unknown
I suggest that gratitude is a choice, and that is quite contentious in situations like domestic violence or situations where you feel like, how can people actually choose gratitude in those situations? And I don't really think that they can necessarily always choose gratitude, but I think that we can even in those situations, we can move towards having greater agency over the choices we're making about our inner gratitude and what what we're how we're going to respond to the adversity in our lives.

00:36:34:02 - 00:37:20:12
Unknown
And so to be able to keep strengthening that capacity to choose comes from reflecting on what kind of attitude am I bringing to this situation, to this relationship, to my day, and to be setting yourself up for the day through the various practices that I've developed? By thinking about what you're grateful for in a, in what is about to unfold and bringing that gratitude into the day in what I call this this approach I call a state of preparedness and to take up gratitude as a practice because our lives are really busy, they're stressful, they're complex, and we can't necessarily feel grateful all the time.

00:37:20:14 - 00:37:42:21
Unknown
But we can achieve a lot by choosing 1 or 2 people that we're grateful that we want to practice our gratitude with. I mean, towards or 1 or 2 situations or 1 or 2 practices and making those practices part of our consciousness until they become a habit or a way of being. And then we move on to other practices.

00:37:42:23 - 00:38:18:01
Unknown
And so developing a habit around reflecting and choosing to practice gratitude. Yes. Nice. Yep. And and seeing it, seeing it as a practice is very helpful when most of us, especially those in high performance situations or, elite sports situations, for example, those of us who have to have a perfection mode of behavior, which many of us do gratitude, then just becomes more of a perfection way of being.

00:38:18:03 - 00:38:49:13
Unknown
And gratitude rebels against perfectionism because it we can never practice. We can never be perfect in our gratitude, and nor should we be, because it's something that we're practicing all the time. So even though I've been researching and trying to practice gratitude for over 25 years now, I get shown every day areas where my life needs more gratitude and, or I'll just think that I've mastered in one situation and then another really difficult situation might come along.

00:38:49:13 - 00:39:16:03
Unknown
So I think it's an evolving practice and perfection is and if we try and be perfect in the way we express gratitude or in the way we feel gratitude, that really makes us negative about what we're not doing, rather than grateful for what we are doing. So I think we've got to we've got to look at our perfectionist tendencies and the negative impact that has on gratitude.

00:39:16:05 - 00:39:43:10
Unknown
With such little time to self manage our own states, how would someone, integrate the practice of gratitude when we've got so many things to focus on, such as mindfulness or, our mindsets and so forth? Where does gratitude fit into that picture? Yes. I don't think we should make gratitude exclusive of other states or other practices. I think they all really enhance each other.

00:39:43:12 - 00:40:18:02
Unknown
So mindfulness really helps gratitude. Gratitude really helps mindfulness. But as the Romans, Romans statesman Cicero said, gratitude is a parent of all virtues, and it's the greatest of all virtues. Because when we practice gratitude, we're practicing a whole lot of other, sort of ways of being, for example, in that situation that I was talking about with difficult relationships, when we're truly grateful to someone who's hurt us, that takes great humility.

00:40:18:04 - 00:40:44:00
Unknown
It takes a lot of love. It takes a lot of forgiveness. It takes a lot of sense of relatedness. It takes empathy. It takes, compassion. A whole lot of things that we can put into play when we're practicing gratitude. So gratitude has a extends on quite a few other ways of being in order for it to be true gratitude as well.

00:40:44:02 - 00:41:06:02
Unknown
So I think, I think when we're when we're practicing gratitude, there's a lot of things that we are bringing into play automatically, which is what makes it a very profound practice. And I think that's another reason why, so much research is now being going on in a whole lot of different fields about the role of gratitude in our daily lives.

00:41:06:04 - 00:41:34:09
Unknown
I think it's also really important from both, a neuro perspective and a psychological perspective in the sense that we can be mindful and perhaps disassociate ourselves from thoughts. But unless we actively choose the solution, unless we actively embody the new habit we want to create, we will. Our neurons will keep firing down pathways of old that we've conditioned over time.

00:41:34:09 - 00:42:08:18
Unknown
And unless we actually focus on isolation, we can't build new patterns of thinking, new patterns of behavior, and if gratitude is the opposite state to resentment, then having that as a as a focus and yet proactive as we talked about earlier, is choice. It's really important to to embed that as a as a habit. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I think a whole lot of all the research that's gone on in neuro neuroscience is really, really relevant to gratitude.

00:42:08:20 - 00:42:38:02
Unknown
And there's a lot coming out about how it can really help us retrain those pathways as well. So how does gratitude work? Well, behind the scenes? Gratitude has a huge impact on our brain, our neurology, emotional capacity, and our ability to communicate. In examining how practice and gratitude, on top of receiving psychological counseling, carried greater benefits and counseling load.

00:42:38:08 - 00:43:15:12
Unknown
Even when the gratitude practice is brief. Professors Joshua Brown and Joe Wong at Indiana University suggest that several important factors may be happening behind the scenes. It turns out that gratitude may be unshackled us from toxic emotions. In their studies examining people's written diaries and responses. Importantly, it was the lack of negative emotion words, not the abundance of positive words that explained the mental health gap between gratitude writing groups and other writing groups.

00:43:15:14 - 00:43:45:11
Unknown
In short, it suggests that the well-regarded gratitude letter writing intervention produces better mental health because it shifts one's attention away from toxic emotions such as resentment and envy. When we write about how grateful we are to others and how much other people have blessed our life, it may be neurochemical, more challenging to ruminate on our negative experiences with the less attention, thought and focus on the negative.

00:43:45:16 - 00:44:26:04
Unknown
A mind naturally feels happier and healthier. They also found that gratitude doesn't need to be communicated to be impactful. Only 23% of participants who wrote gratitude letters from their studies actually sent them to the intended recipient. Yet those who didn't send their letters still enjoyed the benefits of gratitude. Nonetheless, while sharing the thoughts or acts of gratitude with another is certainly more powerful, just thinking of being grateful, not necessarily acting upon it, can still shift our focus away from negative feelings and thoughts, making us feel happier.

00:44:26:06 - 00:44:51:04
Unknown
Not only does it make us feel better, it can help improve our cognitive recall. As Nancy Davis, coauthor of the Thank You project, points out in her pursuit to write 50 thank you letters to people in her life, she struggled at first to even come up with a short list of people to write to. But when she got going, the practice naturally boosted her positive emotion, which in turn helped her to think of more people.

00:44:51:04 - 00:45:15:23
Unknown
To extend her gratitude to this list ended up continuing well beyond her family and friends. She states, strengthening your positive recall bias makes it easier to see the good things around you, even when times are dark. Nancy goes on to say that the practice of writing so many letters of thanks also improved her ability to weather some of life's bigger challenges.

00:45:16:01 - 00:45:49:06
Unknown
Physiologically, gratitude has a measurable impact on our nervous system. Typically, gratitude is associated with a reduction in blood pressure and increased vagal time, which is a sign of a parasympathetic influence on the peripheral nervous system, meaning that our physiology becomes more relaxed and composed when we are grateful is soothing of the nervous system. Maybe one mechanism by which gratitude works to calm the body and allow greater performance and cognitive cohesion.

00:45:49:08 - 00:46:22:17
Unknown
Strange as it may seem, gratitude can also encourage us to fuel our bodies with nourishing feeds. Lisa Walsh, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of California, Los Angeles, posited that grateful people report better physical health because they tend to engage in healthy activities such as focusing on nutrition. She found that getting people to express gratitude helped them to work toward healthier eating behaviors, like eating more fruits and vegetables and eating less junk food relationally.

00:46:22:22 - 00:46:48:14
Unknown
It is thought that gratitude acts like a boost to show, to reminding us about the value of of our interactions and how important relationship is to us. By practicing gratitude, couples can initiate a cycle of generosity. One partner's gratitude inspires the other to act in a way that reaffirms their commitment, leading both partners to feel more connected and satisfied with their relationship.

00:46:48:16 - 00:47:22:22
Unknown
Gratitude opens the door to healthier communication styles because when grateful, we have more positive perceptions of our partners, friends or family. As a result, we are able to listen less the distracting inner noise of resentment. We feel less defensive. We're able to trust more voice concerns more frequently, and feel more comfortable talking through disagreements. Essentially, our distracted avoidance decreases and our communication improves.

00:47:23:00 - 00:47:51:09
Unknown
As long as gratitude is not used as an avoidance to rising emotions, the effects of gratitude can be powerful and long lasting. It is no wonder that one study from the University of Pennsylvania reported that fundraisers who received a pep talk from their director expressing how grateful she was for their efforts, made 50% more fundraising calls and groups who did not receive these grateful comments.

00:47:51:11 - 00:48:34:00
Unknown
A little bit of gratitude goes a long way in this case, enabling employees to feel better motivated to work harder. Flo unleashed. There's some good research that's coming out about the role, the positive impact that gratitude has on heart health, and also on the immune system and sleep there. The three areas where I think there's some good research that says that gratitude can have a really big impact, and also on positive behaviors like getting enough sleep, getting more exercise, trying to have more positive relationships, taking an attitude of gratitude can have an impact on that.

00:48:34:02 - 00:49:03:20
Unknown
But in my own research that I think the most interesting outcome for me from this is qualitative research is that there's just been this common theme that's come through, whether it's with elite sport as elite athletes and their coaches, whether it's with, early childhood educators or university students. This is comment that comes through very often, which is that gratitude helps me feel calmer.

00:49:03:22 - 00:49:35:01
Unknown
And I've going back to a philosophical way of looking at that. I really believe that we feel calmer when we express gratitude, because there's this underlying kind of moral imperative or more or, or way of being that's needing our gratitude to be expressed to somebody or for life itself. And when we do express it, we feel calmer. That's my hypothesis behind this.

00:49:35:02 - 00:50:17:08
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, suddenly when I've been inspired by the Hot Math Institute, when I've taken my heart rate coherence measures and purposefully gone into a state of gratitude, my I feel calm. My my heart rate coherence is better. And, you know, I often think of the appropriateness for leaders and decision makers in terms of them self-managing themselves into that type of state and how gratitude can play an important part within that decision making process for leaders involved in decisions that are affecting other people?

00:50:17:10 - 00:50:59:12
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. More broadly, I think leaders with gratitude set the whole tone of the organization. And we know that from like, if you're a parent taking your children to a school and you know that the principal sets the tone of the whole school and grateful principal set a tone of a grateful school. And even though that's a big responsibility and it's the same can be said of a grateful CEO, the responsibility of waking up every morning and making sure that our gratitude practices are in, in, in, in a stronger position is possible.

00:50:59:14 - 00:51:22:00
Unknown
And the impact that's having on everybody in the organization is pretty awesome. So I love working with leaders because I know the impact is so incredible, and I think the awareness of that can also have its own motivation, can't it, Cameron. Because people will really want to practice gratitude when they know the impact it's having, but on a smaller level as well.

00:51:22:00 - 00:51:53:12
Unknown
Not so small really. It parents the setting, the setting, the tone for the family as well, aren't they? So parents in an attitude of gratitude goes to the kids and that can make a big impact on the whole family. You mentioned earlier about gratitude being a sort of a moral perspective. Simo argues that gratitude is the most important cohesive element for society, and he goes on to say, it is the moral memory of mankind.

00:51:53:12 - 00:52:40:06
Unknown
And gratitude is the bridge connecting one human being with another. And certainly in in leadership scenarios, when we're trying to create cultures and human connection is so important in that process. How does gratitude fit in from a moral perspective? Well, just like I was saying before, I think when we go that there's a there's a personal relationship with the world which is not taking things for granted, and then there's the moral relationship part of that, which is that we don't take other people for granted and that we acknowledge the absolute interdependence we have with everyone in our society.

00:52:40:08 - 00:53:08:02
Unknown
But that shouldn't stay silent, because, as George Simmel says, if that's just not expressed in society as we know, it falls apart. So we can only give in. Giving gives for so long before we collapse, or we lose a sense of value, or we stop being motivated to do anything because we're not being acknowledged for what we give, and we're not giving necessarily to get that in return.

00:53:08:02 - 00:53:47:00
Unknown
But I think that it's purely natural for us to need that recognition of what we give from another person and or from our employers or from our teachers, for example, and or add our parents. And when we don't receive that, then, sense of identity and belonging is threatened. And I believe gratitude has this really important moral significance in helping us acknowledge what we receive from other people, and also in helping us receive that acknowledgment from other people.

00:53:47:02 - 00:54:13:09
Unknown
So to me, gratitude is highly relational. I don't really aspire in my work or way of being to be thinking about gratitude as this purely internal state. I think that's where it starts. But I think the social transformative, transformative, huge potential of gratitude is wasted. If we just stop there and think about our own gratitude. I think gratitude has to be societal.

00:54:13:09 - 00:54:36:16
Unknown
It has to be expressed to others, which is what I, George Simmel quote, is so powerful and relevant. And what is the deep amplification theory of gratitude? So this is from, Philip Watkins, who's a really great researcher. He's written some really great books on gratitude, and he and his colleagues have coined this term, the amplification theory of gratitude.

00:54:36:18 - 00:55:10:11
Unknown
And they start this theory by looking at the work of Baumeister, who did a whole lot of meta analysis of psychological theory and came up with this theory, which is called bad is stronger than good, which is saying that even though we want to think good thoughts and have good memories, evolutionarily speaking the bad overtakes the good. So we often more consciously, if we're not conscious of it, we often I made it go to I made it immediate thinking is bad memories.

00:55:10:11 - 00:55:37:19
Unknown
Bad thoughts. In order to be able to protect ourselves and what the amplification theory is saying because because bad is stronger than good. So it's not it's not enough for us just to have good thoughts because the bad thoughts will take over. But if we're grateful, then gratitude makes the good thoughts stronger. And when we're grateful, then gratitude has the capacity to make the good stronger than the bad.

00:55:37:21 - 00:56:07:03
Unknown
There we go summarized a theory which is quite complex. I hope you understand this. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's a nice clue to, you know, how gratitude can fit into society and you know how it can have such an impact. The butterfly effect and and all the things that we do. Yes. And why do you think gratitude for money is so difficult to practice in our relationships?

00:56:07:03 - 00:56:52:09
Unknown
Like we all might know that gratitude is helpful, but when it comes to actually taking a minute out, taking 10s out to actually practice gratitude, it often gets, you know, put to the back of the queue or doesn't happen. How come it's so difficult? Is that because of the resentment that it might unearth or yes, factors? Yeah, I think I think it is very helpful to know that we need to be vigilant about our gratitude, that it doesn't necessarily come naturally for most of us, and that we do need to put it into our realm of reflection, practices of reflection day and evening.

00:56:52:09 - 00:57:16:18
Unknown
If we can. And to be conscious of practicing it, because there's a whole lot of things that sabotage gratitude. There's a lot stress, busyness. Being time for resentment is a really big one, feeling that we already have gratitude, that we don't need to practice it, feeling like we're grateful people that we don't need to change.

00:57:16:20 - 00:57:41:08
Unknown
That making our gratitude dependent on our mood, whether or not we're positive, whether or not people around us are positive, all of those sorts of things make us, feel like gratitude is not important or feel like we've got this and we haven't got this because gratitude can we can slip away so easily unless we're really practicing it and being vigilant about it.

00:57:41:10 - 00:58:08:11
Unknown
Not in any kind of harsh, going to be grateful way, but just more a gentle, easy grace that we give to life itself into our relationships and thinking about how we can be grateful to other people. Often we're waiting around for other people to be grateful to us before we'll be grateful, or we express great gratitude to somebody, and then we feel like we're not going to do it again because they didn't express gratitude in return.

00:58:08:13 - 00:59:01:01
Unknown
So we make our gratitude very conditional and often very transactional. And then it loses. It's then it's not gratitude. In my view, it's lost its true flavor, which is being a lot more unkindness and something that we want to give because we have received something from life or from relationships. If we just want to give back. And just continuing that theme of, I guess, the complexities of ensuring gratitude is adopted in a in a helpful manner, rather than thinking we're practicing gratitude when perhaps we're not when for professionals who are working with other people, be that teachers, be that coaches, psychologist or just a parent, how how would you recommend people help other people

00:59:01:01 - 00:59:40:23
Unknown
to be grateful by practicing it themselves? I would add, I don't feel like I've got the right to ask other people to be grateful. I think we can invite our students to be grateful, by first, but by giving them strategies, for example. But it's an invitation. It's not a request. And we do that in trying to link the role that gratitude can have to helping them be better people or, other, or to help them be better learners or better soccer players, or better sports people, better surgeons.

00:59:41:01 - 01:00:11:21
Unknown
But I think the onus is always on whether or not we're practicing gratitude ourselves, especially when we have any role with people. And to put 100% of the focus on that, because our gratitude, our inner attitude flows down to those people around us, and that's the best thing we can do. Yeah, it's so true of so many things, even parenting and, focusing on our own development.

01:00:11:22 - 01:00:54:02
Unknown
Yes. To aid the child's development. Yes. Yeah. And where are you hoping future research and gratitude will go over the next five, ten years? Generally, I mean, or my own research, both. Well, I think generally I feel that we really need to take stock and to come to some agreement as to what we really mean by gratitude. But when we before we research gratitude, I think there's a lot of assumptions that we all think that gratitude is the same thing.

01:00:54:04 - 01:01:35:18
Unknown
But I think there's some very important nuances to gratitude that need to be considered before we go ahead and research it. So I think there's been a bit of a rush to get lots of papers and scientific proof, etc., but it's ignored. The socio cultural dimensions of gratitude and the relational aspects of gratitude. So as I'd like to see more of a philosophical investigation of gratitude being brought into the scientific investigations and for my own personal gratitude to direction, I'm always really interested in this interplay between gratitude and resentment.

01:01:35:20 - 01:02:11:09
Unknown
But I'm particularly also really interested in the cross-cultural dimensions of that. And I think the more we can recognize that the the recognized the cultural influences and the nationalists, that people from different nationalities and the differences that that brings to both the concept of gratitude and also our expressions of it towards them in order for it to be received in a meaningful way is really, really important way to get to understand and respect the other person.

01:02:11:11 - 01:02:38:09
Unknown
So I'm really fascinated and interested in exploring that more fully. I've done some work already with indigenous, educators in regards to gratitude, and in both the South and South African and Australian contexts, and a bit, a bit, a little bit in the Maori context, and more recently in Estonia, where I went twice in 2022. But I'd like to do more of that myself.

01:02:38:09 - 01:03:12:21
Unknown
I'm really fascinated by those nuances. Oh, what some of the the learnings that have come out so far from that. Well, for example, in Australian Indigenous culture you can't generalize. But in some of the countries within that, they, they don't they don't necessarily have a word for, for gratitude because it's already embedded in their interdependence and interconnectedness and how they are, as, as, as, as a culture.

01:03:12:21 - 01:03:46:01
Unknown
And so they think that our overlay of gratitude and needing to thank is very it's why it fell as business. It's not it's not necessarily what they need to do with each other. So for example, if if, a young teacher goes to a school in, in Western Australia in where there's a really high percentage of in, in regional Western Australia, where there's a high percentage of, indigenous kids, they might get shocked that they even though they think they take their kids all the time, the kids never thank them.

01:03:46:02 - 01:04:16:10
Unknown
And also and they might think, oh, these these students don't have gratitude, but actually, they do have gratitude. They just don't express it in the way that we express it. So that can lead to a whole lot of misunderstandings in the classroom. And also the best way for that teacher to go and to thank an indigenous child in the classroom is not to actually do it with the child, but to make a relationship with the elder who's responsible for that child and going, thank that that elder for the child.

01:04:16:12 - 01:04:53:16
Unknown
Whatever they want to be grateful for about the child. So that's just one example. Do you find cultures that have a more historic integration with religion tend to be more embroiled with gratitude as a natural habit or practice? Sometimes. Yep. Sometimes I think that gratitude is a pillar for a lot of religions and spiritual paths, but there's also a danger of it being over ritualized and not necessarily sincere.

01:04:53:16 - 01:05:36:22
Unknown
Because I'm not saying that for all cultures, but it could just be like a given that that's what you would do. I think there's a lot of gratitude to God that comes through in those religious societies that may miss how people can be grateful to each other and may miss some of the need to look at resentment and the underlying a because there's kind of is the pressure to be grateful if you come from a religion and you your identify with a particular region that has gratitude as its main focus can make you not necessarily be sincere with the resentment that you might be holding.

01:05:37:00 - 01:05:59:00
Unknown
So there's a I think in every context, they've got to look at what could be robbing us of gratitude, what could be sabotaging our gratitude. And sometimes when we're brought up with a lot of gratitude, that can be a sabotage in itself, because we take it for granted that that's how we are, how we be, and also resentment could be squashed down a bit further than what it would normally be in.

01:05:59:00 - 01:06:41:03
Unknown
In a contrasting situation, I'm not saying this is inherent in religion or not, but in a contrasting situation where resentment is very easily addressed and healthily talked about around the dinner table, for example, and not so destructive and hidden. Yeah, and I see that a lot in, in families and cultures and so forth, like you said, where too much gratitude can almost blind or not real gratitude, perhaps, but the need for presentism to gratitude can blind, perspective of what actually is happening or perhaps blind a moral compass or, or boundaries and so forth.

01:06:41:05 - 01:07:07:17
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. Interesting. Well, we're coming towards the end of our time, and I've really enjoyed this chat so much to take away and to, to sort of embroil myself with. Has there been a, a book or a film that has been impactful for you over the years? Well, I there's, there's been two books that have been really impactful.

01:07:07:19 - 01:07:33:15
Unknown
One is The Courage to Teach by Parker J. Palmer, and he's got this beautiful statement, and this is me as an educator. He's really helped me name up the subjective domain of the educator and name up the fact that who we are has a big impact on who we teach, how we teach. And he's got this, this lovely statement, which is we teach who we are.

01:07:33:17 - 01:08:01:17
Unknown
And I, I really have gathered a lot of my own philosophy of teaching from that book and from his work. So thank you, Parker De Palma. And and there's a there's a really great, great book on gratitude called thanks the Writes and Rituals of Gratitude by Margaret Visser. And she talks a lot about the socio. She's a sociologist and talks about the socio cultural influences of gratitude.

01:08:01:17 - 01:08:27:20
Unknown
And she's come up with this really, she's helped me see this wonderful word for gratitude, which is reconnaissance. The word for gratitude in French is reconnaissance, which means to recognize. And she's saying that in order for us to truly express gratitude to another, we need to recognize that person in ways that are meaningful to them. And this is where the cross-cultural elements of gratitude come in.

01:08:27:20 - 01:09:02:08
Unknown
And so I've been very influenced by her work as well. And I bring to light her work this reconnaissance in my three books on gratitude, because I think getting back to leaders, I think it's there's a real art form to doing this recognition really well. And I think if we can all take one person in our in our orbit who is not flourishing, and to recognize what we truly receive from that person, not in a patronizing way, not how they've helped us, but what we've received from them.

01:09:02:10 - 01:09:27:21
Unknown
And if we can consciously do that as a gratitude practice and our world would be a much better place. So I'm really into this reconnaissance that Margaret Group has brought to our attention, who and if you had one recommendation for people to start integrating a practice of gratitude today, what would that be? Well, I think reconnaissance is a good segue to this.

01:09:27:23 - 01:10:05:05
Unknown
I think that if we could take one difficult relationship, like it's easy to well, maybe we might take other relationships for granted, and we need to practice gratitude more in those. But I think given what's going on in the world right now, we could do really well in terms of our contribution to world peace by taking one difficult relationship and making that relationship, gratitude practice and not necessarily something that's two not not going for high fruit, but going for the low lying fruit.

01:10:05:05 - 01:10:45:19
Unknown
So making a relationship that's a little bit out of our comfort zone, not ones that are really traumatic. And taking that relationship as our gratitude practice and looking for the good, addressing our resentment, helping us to heal that relationship, one relationship at a time, working with that relationship over time, not giving up on it. Finding ways to meaningfully express gratitude to that person and and working on it and and recognizing in ourselves this the great self reflection that that can bring that that is going to be very, very powerful.

01:10:45:19 - 01:11:13:02
Unknown
If we can all do that, it's time to flip the mic. What motivates you to do this work, gratitude work or or my work in general? No, no, I just you're you're like this podcast. What's your big motivation for this podcast to unpack these important topics? There's I think self development generally is quite, trying to become a better human being.

01:11:13:02 - 01:11:40:03
Unknown
You know, I, I guess Aristotle influenced me quite a lot. And, and I think his comments around trying to find our time and, and live with our time and, and you know, what is a good life and what's the purpose of, of living and so forth is quite influential. And I think these topics, the roadmap for myself at least, and, and I think for a lot of other people and there's a lot of ambiguity with these topics.

01:11:40:03 - 01:12:02:15
Unknown
And I think when we have these more deeper conversations around specific topics, it really helps to bring them to life and open them up and remove some of that ambiguity, and certainly for myself, and things become ambiguous. I just kind of glaze over them and they become nice thoughts and cognitive stimulation, but they don't become embodied practice.

01:12:02:15 - 01:12:26:11
Unknown
And, my hope is that we can have these conversations and it turns into people pick up a nugget here and there, and then it integrates more and becomes more of an embodied practice for individuals. And there's a place where people can come and find out a little bit more about topics that have has sort of piqued their curiosity in the past.

01:12:26:13 - 01:12:47:16
Unknown
Great. Beautiful answer, Karen. Somebody should interview you as well. Yeah. All right. Carrie, well, thank you so much for your time. And keep up the good work with the grass seed research and practice.

01:12:47:18 - 01:13:19:22
Unknown
George Zimmerman once wrote, if every grateful action which lingers on from good turns received in the past were suddenly eliminated, society would break apart in a void of gratitude. Resentment and negative effect was certainly find more light of day, filling our consciousness with more unhelpful noise, marring our everyday experience. For anyone listening is holding on to resentment. Please find a safe place to unearth it, share it and express it.

01:13:20:00 - 01:13:46:14
Unknown
Resentment can be a toxin, a psychic poison that can destroy loving relationships, leaving us increasingly bitter and isolated. If you cannot resend your resentment to the individual concerned, it can help to keep identifying it and labeling it whenever you become aware of it, after which, practice self gratitude and remind yourself of your strengths, how you wish to be treated by others.

01:13:46:20 - 01:14:38:07
Unknown
But what else you might want to be grateful for with yourself? Gratitude is an attitude and practice, not a destination. So do not worry about having to be grateful or feeling ashamed. If your lot of resentment surfaces, it is about building grateful habits. Take one relationship at a time and allow yourself to develop a practice of gratitude in terms of being a facilitator to the growth of others, being open to hearing about another's resentment can not only help the individual to dissolve their psychic poison, but can also subconsciously give others permission to identify and unearth their own resentment, creating a safe and trustworthy environment for people to share their resentment and feelings can be one

01:14:38:07 - 01:15:05:01
Unknown
of the most powerful actions a leader can take as a leader, coach or partner or parent. Helping others to check their resentment is great, but one of the most destructive responses is no response at all. They're responding doesn't mean we need to solve other people's grievances or disappointment. Even if we are the accused, as long as their resentment has been acknowledged in a respectful way.

01:15:05:03 - 01:15:38:10
Unknown
Giving unconditional positive regard to someone's vulnerability can have life changing impacts for them. Looking out for signs of resentment, particularly in the prevalence of undermining behavior and allowing those around you to feel comfortable to voice their grievances directly may be one of the most important relational things you do in your personal and professional relationships. If you want to learn more about Kerri House, please visit the Show notes.

01:15:38:12 - 01:16:09:10
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Thank you for listening to Flo Unleashed. If you enjoyed listening, please subscribe to get notified when our next episode drops. The more people that subscribe. The better I can make the show for you equally. Please leave a review. Your review will go a long way to helping others find this spot. Until the next time. Thank you for listening to Flo Unleashed.